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Author Topic: starting problem  (Read 1020 times)

Offline benton

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starting problem
« on: January 20, 2020, 09:38:11 pm »
Hi out there,

Sparky wont start at first time, I have to press twice the startbutton of the computer, than it starts and runs well.

The installed Sparky is a Nibiru 5.9 (868). Do I have change maybe some values in the BIOS ?

Thanx in advance

Offline paxmark1

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2020, 02:46:08 am »
686   ??   686 is a cpu type.   32 bit.         868  is not a number I see often.  i686 can refer to a 6th generation intel chip 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P6_(microarchitecture)       Skim, you do not have to understand all the words, see if your chip is one of the ones listed.

from an old Stack exhange question
Quote
i686 = 32-bit Intel x86 arch
x86_64 = 64-bit Intel x86 arch

686 can also refer to the operating system used.  686 must always be used on a P6 (or AMD equivalent.   

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hardware vs software problems.  How old is your computer.  New or used.   

Did other OSes run on it without problems.  If so what were they and was it days, weeks,  months or years ago. 

I would not consider any changes in the bios at present and I am told in many sources that a upgrade in bios can sometimes make  things worse. 

Since you say it can run, pleast post the output of

"inxi -br"                ##example follows.  Please mark up as code  (the # button in the line above the emoticons)

for me on this computer

Code: [Select]
inxi -b
System:    Host: dbnbuster Kernel: 4.19.0-6-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: LXQt 0.14.1 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
Machine:   Type: Desktop System: Gigabyte product: H81M-S2H GSM v: N/A serial: <root required>
           Mobo: Gigabyte model: H81M-S2H GSM v: x.x serial: <root required> BIOS: American Megatrends v: F2 date: 08/11/2015
CPU:       Dual Core: Intel Core i3-4170 type: MT MCP speed: 1688 MHz min/max: 800/3700 MHz
Graphics:  Device-1: Intel 4th Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics driver: i915 v: kernel
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Haswell v: 4.5 Mesa 18.3.6
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet driver: r8169
           Device-2: Ralink RT5372 Wireless Adapter type: USB driver: rt2800usb
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 2.27 TiB used: 522.02 GiB (22.4%)
Info:      Processes: 175 Uptime: 1h 17m Memory: 11.20 GiB used: 1.04 GiB (9.3%) Shell: bash inxi: 3.0.32
paxmark@dbnbuster:~$ inxi -br
System:    Host: dbnbuster Kernel: 4.19.0-6-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: LXQt 0.14.1 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
Machine:   Type: Desktop System: Gigabyte product: H81M-S2H GSM v: N/A serial: <root required>
           Mobo: Gigabyte model: H81M-S2H GSM v: x.x serial: <root required> BIOS: American Megatrends v: F2 date: 08/11/2015
CPU:       Dual Core: Intel Core i3-4170 type: MT MCP speed: 798 MHz min/max: 800/3700 MHz
Graphics:  Device-1: Intel 4th Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics driver: i915 v: kernel
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Haswell v: 4.5 Mesa 18.3.6
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet driver: r8169
           Device-2: Ralink RT5372 Wireless Adapter type: USB driver: rt2800usb
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 2.27 TiB used: 522.02 GiB (22.4%)
Repos:     Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
           1: deb http://debian.mirror.rafal.ca/debian/ buster main non-free contrib
           2: deb-src http://debian.mirror.rafal.ca/debian/ buster main non-free contrib
           3: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
           4: deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
           5: deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian bionic contrib
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spideroakone.list
           1: deb https://apt.spideroak.com/ubuntu/ release restricted
Info:      Processes: 175 Uptime: 1h 17m Memory: 11.20 GiB used: 1.04 GiB (9.3%) Shell: bash inxi: 3.0.32



Search forum for "More info easier via inxi"    If requested -  no inxi, no help for you by  me.

Offline benton

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2020, 01:34:18 pm »
Hi paxmark1,
sorry, was busy the last days, couldnt answer.

its i868, a 32bit Intel. Its an older Computer, before it was Vista installed and there were no problems.

btw. when I run the comannd inside the editor you gave me (inxi-br), there are no results, it shows a error message (command not found). Maybe I missunderstood your words.

Maybe there is no real problem with the computer, I try to explain the phenomenon in Detail.
Usually a short push on the starting knob would be enough to start any computer. If I do so, the computer starts not at the first time (there is a sound like "piuu" and nothing happens), after a second push, it starts. I found out, if I push the button a bit longer, it starts at the first time. Is this a normal behaviour?

My first opinion was to change the boot priority in the BIOS. Now its set to HDD as first priority.

Thank you for your help
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 01:41:17 pm by benton »

Offline paxmark1

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2020, 04:40:25 pm »
Short answer.  My guess for an older computer for having to push twice or hold longer would be mechanical.  Maybe clean with canned air and a shot towards the power switch.  My advice would not be to jam the air tip into the crease in front.   

Yes, changing the boot order is not a big deal.  Proper in this case.  I was not clear, what I really wanted to say was not to flash the firmware except as a drastic measure.

Sparky has gone to automatically installing inxi, but maybe just for the Rolling- testing versions.  I do recommend you stay with the 5.9. 

Using aptus or command line to add inxi is a very small program trusted by many wiser than me in linux

For command line as user   "sudo apt install inxi"   and then type in your user password.  It simplifies debugging - what you type might not be what is actually in the box.   Less typing for you. 

peace out mark
Search forum for "More info easier via inxi"    If requested -  no inxi, no help for you by  me.

Offline rollinbeaver

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2020, 09:30:22 pm »
Hi,

sorry for nitpicking:

Quote
its i868,

No it's not. Very likely i686, though.
If you post Maker and Model no. from the back label, that should help to clarify this point.

Quote
btw. when I run the comannd

command?

Quote
inside the editor

Actually, no, that was meant to be on the command line, NOT inside an editor.

Quote
you gave me (inxi-br), there are no results, it shows a error message (command not found).

I don't wonder. Also, you lost a blank in there.

Quote
Maybe I missunderstood your words.

Yep.

So: please post the model identification from the laptop's back label and the results of
Code: [Select]
inxi -br(note the blank!!)
then we can hopefully offer further help.

Good Luck and a sharp eye for details!
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best regards, ever rollinbeaver

Offline benton

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 07:15:20 pm »
"sorry for nitpicking:"

no problem, any help is good enough. Dont forget, Im a greenhorn with Linux.

The results

System:
  Host: nanni-pc Kernel: 4.19.0-6-686 i686 bits: 32 Desktop: Cinnamon 3.8.8
  Distro: SparkyLinux 5.10 (Nibiru)
Machine:
  Type: Laptop System: FUJITSU SIEMENS product: AMILO Li 2727 v: 10600981645
  serial: <root required>
  Mobo: FUJITSU SIEMENS model: LV1 v: 1G serial: <root required>
  BIOS: Phoenix v: 1.07 date: 01/16/2008
Battery:
  ID-1: BAT0 charge: 20.6 Wh condition: 33.9/48.8 Wh (69%)
CPU:
  Dual Core: Intel Pentium Dual T2410 type: MCP speed: 1995 MHz
  min/max: 800/2000 MHz
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics driver: i915
  v: kernel
  Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa
  resolution: 1280x800~60Hz
  OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel 965GM x86/MMX/SSE2 v: 2.1 Mesa 18.3.6
Network:
  Device-1: Realtek RTL8101/2/6E PCI Express Fast/Gigabit Ethernet
  driver: r8169
  Device-2: Qualcomm Atheros AR242x / AR542x Wireless Network Adapter
  driver: ath5k
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 149.05 GiB used: 9.73 GiB (6.5%)
Repos:
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free
  2: deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free
  3: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ buster/updates main contrib non-free
  4: deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ buster/updates main contrib non-free
  5: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main contrib non-free
  6: deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main contrib non-free
  7: deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org buster main non-free
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/dropbox.list
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/liquorix.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/openoffice.list
  1: deb http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/apacheoo-deb/debian testing main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sparky-stable.list
  1: deb https://repo.sparkylinux.org/ core main
  2: deb-src https://repo.sparkylinux.org/ core main
  3: deb https://repo.sparkylinux.org/ stable main
  4: deb-src https://repo.sparkylinux.org/ stable main
Info:
  Processes: 168 Uptime: 3m Memory: 1.96 GiB used: 678.8 MiB (33.8%)
  Shell: bash inxi: 3.0.32


The backside: Fujitsu Siemens, Amilo Li 2727, Model: MS 2228

As I told before, this PC was with Vista, it run well, started at first time, the problem came with Sparky, maybe a missing driver?

Thank you both

Offline rollinbeaver

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 07:32:26 pm »
Hi,

just a quick fact, for lack of more time:
After some quick ersatz-googling with
Code: [Select]
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pentium+dual+t2410, i stumbled on
Code: [Select]
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Pentium_Dual-Core/Intel-Pentium Dual-Core Mobile T2410 LF80537GE0411M.html
According to this, your T2410 can do 64bit OSes. I'd try the 64bit version, accordingly.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 07:34:33 pm by rollinbeaver »
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best regards, ever rollinbeaver

Offline benton

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 08:10:28 pm »
"According to this, your T2410 can do 64bit OSes. I'd try the 64bit version, accordingly."

Yes, but can 2 GB RAM handle a 64 bit OS? If there is a solution for my problem, Im not keen on to change, unless this problem is out of the 32 bit OS?

Thanx for Help
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 08:15:12 pm by benton »

Offline paxmark1

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2020, 02:58:09 am »
1.   The button with the #  is used to format output from the computer into a more readable from called "code"  If you hover your mouse over it it will say insert code.  If you do that in the future it is even more readable, as my example in my first post shows.   NOTE:  This forum ( and others elsewhere) has a bug or glitch in the output of the  http   urls.  Wrapping the text from inxi into the xml code formatting via the # button cures that.   This is just for future reference. 

2.  Yes it would work with 64 bit, but with only 2 GB I agree that 32 bit will work as well or better.  I would go with the 32 bit myself in this case. 

3.  With a bios from 2008 - I would not be surprised if the glitch or problem in starting is due to old hardware. Buttons get old, keyboards get dirty.  If anyone else has any ideas that are from the start up process from pushing the switch to powering up the board and the initiation of  the bios or in the handoff to the kernel, that would be nice. 

 Did you try the air to clean things out?  ( I can see that it is a laptop and if you choose not to do so, that is acceptable)    As stated, be gentle with the application of air to the switch.   Forcing the tip of the air inside could move the "spring" (which could be on it's last legs) out of position and make things worse.   If you have a tiny vacuum, that might help also.  Easy does it.   

4.  I appreciate your using the -r option for inxi, some people go wild on all sorts of other repositories and that can cause problems.  I see no problems with yours.

What with the stable Debian base and the little add ons that Sparky adds to simplify and to add non-free components Debian prefers not to install, you have a very good base to extend the life of a antique computer. 
Search forum for "More info easier via inxi"    If requested -  no inxi, no help for you by  me.

Offline benton

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2020, 07:01:56 pm »
Hi paxmark1

referring to 1.

thank you for the hint, this would have been one of the next questions. I tried many options to get this nice gray frame for using "quote", after all, the easiest way was to use simple "copy and paste", sorry for that, I will try # for the next time.

referring to 3.

this Laptop was used by my Mother, she will continue to use it. She allways was very carefull with it (like mothers are), it looks like out of the box, thatswhy I can hardly believe its a hardwarefailure. Although youre right, old machines will brake after a while, but this one was used rearly. Why it starts reliable after second push, not after the third or fourth time. This tells me obviously, it has nothing to do with any hardware. Thats my opinion, could be wrong.
I have chosen Sparky, because it can bring also old XP Computers back to life.

I still hoping for a solution wich can be solved by adding some components from debian package. Maybe?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 07:05:58 pm by benton »

Offline rollinbeaver

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2020, 07:30:09 pm »
Hi,

what i meant by "try" was this:
https://wiki.sparkylinux.org/doku.php/create_live_usb

Get another Distro's LiveBoot ISO image and create a Liveboot USB stick, so as to try and boot a different OS without having to actually install it, and thus ascertain if the problem is with the OS or the Laptop.

By the way, did you do a dual boot installation with Windows? Then i'd test if the problem persists with that.

Anyway, what happens after you successfully press the power button (for the 2nd time), is the BIOS starting, doing a Power-On-Self-Test (POST), then looking for a bootloader on any connected storage media and starting that. Up to now, nothing directly related to Sparkylinux has happened, so the problem should be independent of the Linux distro chosen, or Windows.

I'm wondering.
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Offline benton

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2020, 07:53:28 pm »
Code: [Select]
By the way, did you do a dual boot installation with Windows? Then i'd test if the problem persists with that. No, I used a DVD from the Magazin "Linux Welt" and installed Sparky as main OS, Vista is erased/gone.
Code: [Select]
Anyway, what happens after you successfully press the power button (for the 2nd time), is the BIOS starting, doing a Power-On-Self-Test (POST), then looking for a bootloader on any connected storage media and starting that. Up to now, nothing directly related to Sparkylinux has happened, so the problem should be independent of the Linux distro chosen, or Windows. Following your instructions, I downloaded YUMI, Yumi promises several Distris as Live Version and some other useful tools. Is this method the right way? I would run it from USB-Stick.

To run it from Stick...., that was my thought. But, there emerges another problem (problems over problems  :P, Well, Linux is not Windows!)  I tried to bring the Download from the Folder (Download) into the Stick, usually in Windows, there should be an option like "move" or "shift" with right-click. How can I move the Download into the USB-Stick?
Thank you very much for your time (Sorry, Im a Windows-Looser  ;) )
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 07:55:41 pm by benton »

Offline benton

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2020, 02:41:39 pm »
Its said, inside any Computer is a tiny battery, wich is needed to start the PC/Laptop. Could this be the reason? I started the Laptop a few times wich was connected to electric socket and it started the first time, until now. I assume to connect to electric socket helps the Laptop to start at first time, becaus the tiny battery ist to weak for this job?

Offline paxmark1

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2020, 08:47:25 pm »
Yes, it very well maybe the CMOS battery. Hardware problem, not software.    Probably a CR2032 

A quick search by me yielded. 

https://store.hp.com/us/en/tech-takes/what-is-cmos-battery-how-to-remove-and-replace#!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rypBVY7yGtM

If you have small good tiny tools and a little experience with opening up a laptop you should be fine.  Possibly it is just small torx or phillips scredrivers and a tweezer.  If not, starting up with the power supply would work also. 
Search forum for "More info easier via inxi"    If requested -  no inxi, no help for you by  me.

Offline rollinbeaver

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Re: starting problem
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2020, 12:56:33 am »
... I used a DVD from the Magazin "Linux Welt" and installed Sparky as main OS, Vista is erased/gone.

Ah, you still have a DVD drive included, which means you could burn ISO files to disc and boot from that.
 
By the way, please quote using "Quote" (top left of a post) or the speech bubble icon in the editor, not "code" (#).

Following your instructions, I downloaded YUMI, Yumi promises several Distris as Live Version and some other useful tools. Is this method the right way? I would run it from USB-Stick.

There's several tools or methods, YUMI being one. I used mostly Unetbootin in Windows and Linux, which puts just one distro onto a USB stick, by unpacking an ISO and copying files. Leaves files already on the stick in peace, which i found handy.

To run it from Stick...., that was my thought. But, there emerges another problem (problems over problems  :P, Well, Linux is not Windows!)  I tried to bring the Download from the Folder (Download) into the Stick, usually in Windows, there should be an option like "move" or "shift" with right-click. How can I move the Download into the USB-Stick?

Not that way, it wouldn't boot yet.
A good tip is to look for "how to make a live boot USB stick" on a distro's web page, which mostly suggest using some tool to do it.
I believe i mentioned https://sparkylinux.org/usb-sparkylinux/.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 12:59:16 am by rollinbeaver »
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best regards, ever rollinbeaver