SparkyLinux Forums

Software & hardware support => Desktops => Topic started by: dhinds on January 10, 2014, 09:40:05 PM

Title: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 10, 2014, 09:40:05 PM
I have been using Sparky Mate with considerable success except for a problem that has reoccurred (first with one computer on which I installed v. 3.1 and then with another on which I installed v. 3.2, both 64 bit) with the user login and as a result, I am running both as root.  (The problem was explained in a much earlier post and solutions were provided, but now it has reoccurred).



I'm not sure whether the difficulty is a Debian issue or a Mate issue but in any case, I decided to install Sparky Gnome and see what happens,



Since that DE is not offered by Sparky, I assume that I could build it using either the cli build or the Ultra Openbox edition (Gnome can use Openbox as it's XWindow Manager).



The purpose of this comment is to confirm that perception,  Opinions?  Pavroo?



(I could use the default Debian Testing iso but I consider Sparky to be an improved configuration and software package selection).



Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 10, 2014, 11:47:39 PM
CLI or Ultra is  a good way to build own DE. GNOME can use Openbox Window manager, just install 'openbox-gnome-session' package if you don't like metacity. I started making new app 'sparky-desktop-manager' to easy install any DE, but it is laying down until I'll find time for that.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: Somewhat Reticent on January 11, 2014, 12:01:11 AM
This could get complicated - exponentially. After all, there's no base API for desktop environments, is there?

But modular build-your-own-system is a very appealing concept, just like carrying a toolset mini-repository.

Something to keep in the back of the mind, I suspect, a long-term consideration. Or tutorial, or wiki guide.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 11, 2014, 05:18:03 AM

Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 10, 2014, 23:47

CLI or Ultra is  a good way to build own DE.




Which of the two routes is likely to be easier and/or more secure (that is, generate better results)?



Perhaps I should ask if the CLI iso is intended to be used as a base platform, or as is?



Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 10, 2014, 23:47GNOME can use Openbox Window manager, just install 'openbox-gnome-session' package if you don't like metacity.




I can't say I don't like (or like, for that matter) metacity, more or less than Openbox.  Do you yourself have a preference?  What are the tradeoffs (the strengths and weakness of one vs. the other)?



On looking around I found a variety of opinions and in any case, Gnome 3 uses mutter.



Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 10, 2014, 23:47I started making new app 'sparky-desktop-manager' to easy install any DE, but it is laying down until I'll find time for that.




Meanwhile, we'll strive to get by one way or another.  Would you care to venture a guess why Sparky Mate has stopped allowing me to log on as the original user on two different computers?  Or whether this is a Debian issue or a Debian Mate or?



Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 11, 2014, 06:48:47 PM
Yes, you right - mutter, metacity was before. I use LXDE for the last a few years, means nor GNOME nor KDE.

CLI or Ultra? It depends of you. Ultra tels you install another DE in running graphical environment, but it has some tools you don't need for MATE or GNOME. It is an easy way. CLI has only base system, so if you feel well with a text console - it's more practical way to build own DE with any additionat trash. If I do that, I used to build it from CLI.

Talking about log in bug - I don't know yet, but I'll try to look around.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 11, 2014, 08:28:03 PM
Just let me know, did you make dist-upgrade before you coudn't log in after next system starts up or it happens after Sparky installation after the first boot?
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 11, 2014, 10:07:43 PM
I have re-read your previous post and I am still trying understand what is going on. I have made two testing installation of Sparky MATE 64 bit with different options and everything gone well. But...

Log in as root, go to /home folder (not /home/your-nick) and show me results of the command:

Code:

ls -l


Anyway you can remove your present password manually editing as root the file:

Code:

/etc/passwd


Find a line started with your nick name and remove "x:" so it should looks like (not pavroo :) ):

Code:

pavroo:1000:1000:pavroo,,,:/home/pavroo:/bin/bash


Then save it, reboot and try to log in to user account normally with no password.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 11, 2014, 10:25:06 PM

Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 11, 2014, 20:28

Just let me know, did you make dist-upgrade before you couldn't log in after next system starts up or it happens after Sparky installation after the first boot?




I used the system for quite a while with no problems before the problem arose, updating regularly and upgrading once in a while; so it probably happened after an upgrade.  (If I had been using the Sparky BackUp System I would probably have been able to resolve this sooner).



As for your other questions and suggestions, I'm using Sparky E17 on another computer at the moment (trying to figure that one out) but will get back to the other one shortly.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 11, 2014, 10:33:33 PM
If it happend after one of upgrades, don't make any change.

Try to fix any broken packages in text console and see output messages following commands:

Code:

apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
dpkg --configure -a
apt-get install -f
apt-get dist-upgrade


Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 12, 2014, 01:59:36 AM
Yes, I definitely want to regain access to the user account on Sparky Mate and will follow up on your suggestions shortly.



I also am interested in installing a Gnome version of Sparky (I have been able to get more done with Sparky than with Debian Testing) and began with the CLI version but the commands I tried didn't produce the intended results so I ran the Ultra version and installed a lot of Gnome applications (including the full Gnome Desktop) during the live session, and assumed it is necessary to reboot in order for them to take effect.  But I couldn't find the installation application, There is no icon on the desktop and no listing in the openbox menu that appears when left clicking the desktop (or in the XFE4-panel that accompanies it), so I will have to wait.  After installing Sparky Ultra, adding Gnome and rebooting, the Gnome 3 Desktop will appear - or it won't.



I rebooted to look for an installation option (rather than run the live session) but that doesn't appear either.



So the trick now is installing Sparky Ultra.  I assume it can be installed, but how?



In any case, judging from your suggestions, getting the Sparky Mate installation back into shape appears to be doable.  I have installed on both the laptop and the main desktop machines and preferred it the rest of the distros installed on other partitions.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 12, 2014, 02:10:18 AM
You have 3 ways to run installer in Ultra Edition:

1. right click menu-> Applications-> System

2. home folder-> Installer icon

3. in text console run command: sudo sparkylinux-installer gui
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 12, 2014, 04:01:54 PM
Thanks - I tried two of those but will do so again.



(I just replied to the earlier quote but it didn't post.  it was rather long but I will redo it.  I should have copied it before submitting it).



I have been unable to submit it but will attempt to add it here:



Code:

root@cmgx58i7:~# cd /home
root@cmgx58i7:/home# ls -l
total 8
drwxr-xr-x 25 douglash douglash 4096 Jan 12 06:47 douglash
drwxr-xr-x  3 root     root     4096 Jan 11 09:14 remastersys




The user douglash was created after I failed to enter my dhinds account, which I changed the passwd for following the instructions you provided earlier. But I am still unable to enter that account.  So i manually recreated 15 email accounts and my Mate desktop (panels etc.) under root.



The subdirectory passwd does not appear under /etc (there are 15 subdirectories that begin with "P" under /etc but none is passwd or anything similar).  Could it be somewhere else?



Code:

root@cmgx58i7:/home# cd /etc
root@cmgx58i7:/etc# cd /etc/passwd
bash: cd: /etc/passwd: Not a directory




Another strange thing:  gparted doesn't indicate that Sparky's /home partition is mounted (and the / partition filled - so I enlarged it.  That happened after the problem occurred).



Are the /home partitions associated with distinct users or do different users have separate directories on the /home partition?



Yet another strange issue is, two separate / partitions are shown to be mounted as such:  / (labeled Sparky) and / labeled Debian (which was installed after I was unable to access my Sparky Mate 3.2 user).



I will also mention that Sparky is shown on the Debian Grub menu as Debian Testing also, whereas other Linux Derivitives (i.e. LMDE, Solus, Neptune & Point - which I no long use) are indicated under their own names.  I mention this because it's something you might want to take care of (not that it's urgent).



I had never installed Debian previously and frankly, I prefer Sparky.  Sparky comes with many of the applications I prefer already installed and a much more complete selection of Repositories.  I do like Gnome 3 (although Mate is more functional for me at present - if the loss of user problem - which affects Mint and Ubuntoo also, can be resolved, and we are doing just that).  Debian's Synaptic is acting strange also, whereas there's no problem with Sparky's.  And of course the Sparky Forums are excellent. 8-)



I'll install Sparky Ultra and see if I can add the Full Gnome 3 Desktop.  (Although using Sparky Mate as root is fine, if I am careful about the permissions.  Although Sparky is my main system I do use openSUSE 13.1 Gnome occasionally).
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 12, 2014, 05:04:21 PM
The rights of your home folder are OK.

/etc/passwd is not a folder, it's a file so edit it with a text editor, for example:

Code:

nano /etc/passwd


But don't change it yet.

Check fstab file is the home folder configured by fstab:

Code:

nano /etc/fstab


so it should look like that (change sda8 for your home's device):

Code:

#Entry for /dev/sda8 :
UUID=d389e6c1-db27-4897-9622-2b810528bd55       /home   ext4    defaults        0       2


Find the UUID of home partition with command:

Code:

ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid


Then save the fstab file and reboot.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 13, 2014, 04:51:36 AM

Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 11, 2014, 22:33

If it happend after one of upgrades, don't make any change.

Try to fix any broken packages in text console and see output messages following commands:

Code:

apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
dpkg --configure -a
apt-get install -f
apt-get dist-upgrade






Did that, but the problem persists. I can login either as root or via a new account, which I have yet to configure (so I use root).



However:  I installed Sparky Ultra today and am very favorably impressed.  Everything seems to be working and the system is very responsive. I am using it at the moment, and between the xfce4-panels and the right click desktop controls, I will leave it as is for a while.  I may not need Gnome.  This is a good OS.  For now I am better at using Mate but Ultra is as stable and fast as I've seen.  Installing a Windoze PIM w/ Wine (for instance), was easier than with any other, including Debian Testing itself.  And Qupzilla is one nice web browser (this I am writing using Opera Next).



I was unable to quote your last response (I've tried 4 or 5 times) so I trying adding my comment to it below:



I'll try that as soon as I get back into Sparky Mate.  I also need to figure out how to save my Thunderbird Profile from either the original user account or root (I redid 15 email accounts manually).
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 13, 2014, 03:33:30 PM

Quote:

I also need to figure out how to save my Thunderbird Profile from either the original user account or root (I redid 15 email accounts manually).


You can copy all Icedove settings, accounts and emails via Sparky-Backup-Copy & Recovery.

If you use Thunderbird instead of Icedove, just copy root's home hidden folder called .thunderbird and past it to your home folder of the new account of new Sparky installation.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 14, 2014, 01:58:02 AM
The text of my fstab file is as follows:



Code:

# /etc/fstab: static file system information.
#
# <file system> <mount point>   <type>  <options>       <dump>  <pass>

proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
# /dev/sda15
/dev/sda15 / ext4 relatime,errors=remount-ro 0 1
# /dev/sda16 home
/dev/sda16 /home ext4 relatime 0 0
# /dev/sda7
/dev/sda7 none swap sw 0 0
# cdrom
/dev/cdrom /media/cdrom udf,iso9660 user,noauto,exec,utf8 0 0




It's incorrect.  Because after I was unable to login with my user account on this desktop machine (on which I had installed Sparky Mate 3.2 64 bit), I installed the default version (Gnome) of Debian Testing on sda11 (a btrfs partition), and it's home is on sda15 (also a btrfs partition) that Sparty Mate is sharing as one of it's two root partitions.  Which may or may not cause problems (I don't know).  In any case, it should probably be corrected.



Sparky Mate's / partition is sda13, and it's a ext4 partition.  And gparted shows two separate mount points for / while in Sparky: sda13 and sda15 (which isn't Sparky - it's Debian /home; a separate and later installation with a newer kernel, as the Sparky Ultra Grub indicates).



This suggests to me that it might be a good idea to label the Sparky intallations so that it is clearly Sparky, as Point, Neptune, Snow, Solus and LMDE do, within Grub.



Before doing the rest of of the things you suggest below i am going to wait for any observations that you care to make and meanwhile, I will backup my IceDove files (yes it is IceDove) and attempt to put them in the Sparky Utra edition installed on sdb15 and 16 (both ext 4 - the Sparky Ultra installer does not offer the option of formatting a partition as btrfs, even after installing that capacity before installing the OS to the hard drive.



Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 12, 2014, 17:04

so it should look like that (change sda8 for your home's device):

Code:

#Entry for /dev/sda8 :
UUID=d389e6c1-db27-4897-9622-2b810528bd55       /home   ext4    defaults        0       2


Find the UUID of home partition with command:

Code:

ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid


Then save the fstab file and reboot.




I'll hold off a bit more on that one too.  I want to get Sparky Ultra working efficiently at the moment.  (I am currently in mate to copy the IceDove files and a few other things.



I want to mention that fstab  has come up now and then over the years, but no one provided a command as clear and easy before to access it.



Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 14, 2014, 02:26:42 AM
Make me clear - the fstab file you provided is from Sparky Ultra - sda15 root, sda16 home.

Can you copy fstab from Sparky Mate which is on sda13? and past it here.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 14, 2014, 04:30:44 AM

Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 14, 2014, 02:26

Make me clear - the fstab file you provided is from Sparky Ultra - sda15 root, sda16 home.

Can you copy fstab from Sparky Mate which is on sda13? and past it here.




I ran that command from Sparky Mate.   I haven't used Sparky Ultra today, which is on partitions sdb15 (/) and sdb16(/home)



Sparky Mate is on sda13 and it's /home is supposed to be on sda14.  I say that because I label those partitions when I install the OS's, and gparted shows where the mount points are for the OS one is using - and no /home partition is mounted.



Something interesting just happened: I took your advice and used SparkyBackup-Apps-Copy to copy my IceDove data, except I received a message saying "The user you chose does not have a proper home directory", referring to the user dhinds that I can no longer log into.  That may be why.  Now I have two computers with Sparky Mate that I can only use as root (and a new user that has no email accounts configured as yet).  So I check my mail as root but can't backup the accounts configured in IceDove as root, I suppose.



I should have backed them up before losing the ability to log in.  Well I can set them up again, if necessary.



sda15 is Debian's /home (although apparently Sparky Mate is using it as /root, as well, in addition to sda13) and there is no sda16, according to gparted.



So my fstab is wrong.  At some point I eliminated or consolidated partitions and the kernel wasn't informed in time.  I need to modify the present or generate a new fstab file.

Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 14, 2014, 02:35:30 PM
OK, Sparky MATE sda15 and sda16 home.

Change home line for:

Code:

/dev/sda16 /home ext4 defaults 0 2


And reboot.

Why is there separated 'proc' partition? Sparky does not have an option to create it.

You can't backup Icedove via SparkyBackupApps becouse it's root account and the app can't detect proper user account.

So manualy copy root's hidden home folder called .icedove and past it to your working 'normal' account to another sparky installation.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 14, 2014, 04:24:16 PM

Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 14, 2014, 14:35

OK, Sparky MATE sda15 and sda16 home.

Change home line for:

Code:

/dev/sda16 /home ext4 defaults 0 2


And reboot.




sda16 does not exist (it did at one time but no longer does).  Sparky Mate sda13 and sda14 home.  That is correct.



So what I need to type is:



Code:

/dev/sda14 /home ext4 defaults 0 2




Is that correct?



Quote:

Why is there separated 'proc' partition? Sparky does not have an option to create it.




Nor did I create it.  I have no idea how it got there or what it stands for.



Maybe this explains it: Wikipedia  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fstab>  shows:



Quote:

The following is an example of an fstab file on a typical Linux system:



# device name   mount point     fs-type      options                                             dump-freq pass-num

LABEL=/         /               ext4         defaults                                            1 1

/dev/sda6       none            swap         defaults                                            0 0

none            /dev/pts        devpts       gid=5,mode=620                                      0 0

none            /proc           proc         defaults                                            0 0

none            /dev/shm        tmpfs        defaults




So apparently proc is a term Fstab relates to.  It may represent "Process" or "Processes"



Quote:

You can't backup Icedove via SparkyBackupApps becouse it's root account and the app can't detect proper user account.




OK.  I wasn't aware how easy it is to use the various SparkyBackup services you added to Sparky.  They represent a valuable addition to the Debian base.  So although I should have become familiar with and taken advantage of them as a user, I can still do that next time and avoid further problems in the future.



quote]So manually copy root's hidden home folder called .icedove and past it to your working 'normal' account to another sparky installation.[/quote]



Fine.  If that works for my new Sparky ultra installation (or for that matter, my new user account on Sparky Mate), I can run the SparkyBackupApps from those.  This really saves a lot of time and trouble. Evolution is easy to back up but Thunderbird/Icedove is more complicated, and that is what I use.



However, Sparky Ultra comes with Claws, however.  So SparkyBackupApps is not going to include IceDove on Sparky Ultra, I suppose.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 14, 2014, 05:23:53 PM
Alright, I have double checked it.

The proc has to be there.

Yes, it's OK: /dev/sda14 /home ext4 defaults 0 2

You can install Icedove on Ultra Edition:

Code:

apt-get update
apt-get install icedove


Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 14, 2014, 06:13:05 PM

Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 14, 2014, 17:23

Alright, I have double checked it.

The proc has to be there.

Yes, it's OK: /dev/sda14 /home ext4 defaults 0 2

You can install Icedove on Ultra Edition:

Code:

apt-get update
apt-get install icedove






I changed the fstab using nano in a root terminal so that Sparky Mate is on sda13 and it's /home is sda14.



Then I rebooted and have regained access to my user account dhinds and am using it to post this.



SparkyBackup-Apps-Copy won't open but it might after rebooting.



GParted shows that Sparky is using the correct partions and is no longer sharing sda15 (a btrfs partition) with Debian Testing (DT's /home) as one of it's two /root partitions.



I was uncertain about changing "/dev/sda14 /home ext4 defaults 0 2" and left it as

"/dev/sda14 /home ext4 relatime 0 0"



IOW, I changed only the number 16 to 14



The fstab is now:



Code:

GNU nano 2.2.6              File: /etc/fstab                                  

# /etc/fstab: static file system information.
#
# <file system> <mount point>   <type>  <options>       <dump>  <pass>

proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
# /dev/sda13
/dev/sda13 / ext4 relatime,errors=remount-ro 0 1
# /dev/sda14 home
/dev/sda14 /home ext4 relatime 0 0
# /dev/sda7
/dev/sda7 none swap sw 0 0
# cdrom
/dev/cdrom /media/cdrom udf,iso9660 user,noauto,exec,utf8 0 0

               [ line 1/15 (6%), col 1/46 (2%), char 0/374 (0%) ]
^G Get Help  ^O WriteOut  ^R Read File ^Y Prev Page ^K Cut Text  ^C Cur Pos
^X Exit      ^J Justify   ^W Where Is  ^V Next Page ^U UnCut Text^T To Spell




I had already installed icedove to Sparky Ultra but assumed that Sparky Ultra's SparkyBackup-Apps-Copy wouldn't list it, since it wasn't part of the default installation.



I also tried to copy the root's icedove file and changed permissions to it using MC.



So there are some minor (and I assume resolveable) issues still but significant progress has been made and everything is actually making sense.



Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 14, 2014, 06:25:15 PM
Both versions of fstab entry for the home partiton are fine.

If you'd like to mount sda15 partition automaticaly, add it to the fstab or use Disk Manager from Menu-> Preferences to do so.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 14, 2014, 06:50:36 PM

Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 14, 2014, 18:25

Both versions of fstab entry for the home partiton are fine.

If you'd like to mount sda15 partition automaticaly, add it to the fstab or use Disk Manager from Menu-> Preferences to do so.




sda15 is Debian Testing's /home.  I have not used it with Sparky intentionally and am not using Debian Testing at present.



I rebooted back into Sparky Mate and the passwords are working but I get the message:



Code:

Could not update ICE authority file /home/dhinds/.ICEauthority




I could then access the account and was asked for some password info.



The problem is, SparkyBackup-Apps-Copy still won't open.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 14, 2014, 07:18:41 PM
.ICEauthority:

Backup the old file and create a new one (in your home folder /home/dhinds):

Code:

mv .ICEauthority .ICEauthority.bak
touch .ICEauthority


SparkyBackup - run it as root it text console:

Code:

su
sparkybackup-apps


Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 14, 2014, 07:25:18 PM
I am now back in Sparky Ultra and everything is working correctly and it is very fast.  If I am unable to backup my icedove accounts data in Sparky Mate I will reconfigure all of them here.  And I see that having installed icedove (via synaptics) I can now use the SparkyBackup-Apps-copy and Restore utility with it - it's now on the list.



I won't be attempting to install Gnome on it any time soon.  I do use the xfce4-panel with it and kill the 9 wbar in order to use a second xfce-panel below.  A script to mount those automatically would be an improvement.



I find Gnome 3 to be very intuitive but I don't want to risk messing up this installation and suppose that installing Gnome would slow the system down somewhat.  Not only that, getting it installed and running as I want may or may not be feasible give my prior knowledge and experience.  This is the best system yet.  I could attempt installing Gnome over Sparky Ultra on another computer, that I use less (and has larger hard drives).


dhinds@cmgx58i7:~$ xfce4-panel



(xfce4-panel:4133): GLib-WARNING **: (/tmp/buildd/glib2.0-2.36.4/./glib/gerror.c:390):g_error_new_valist: runtime check failed: (domain != 0)

xfce4-panel: Failed to connect to session manager: Failed to connect to the session manager: SESSION_MANAGER environment variable not defined



(xfce4-panel:4133): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type _OB_WM_ACTION_UNDECORATE



(xfce4-panel:4133): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type _OB_WM_ACTION_UNDECORATE



(xfce4-panel:4133): Gtk-WARNING **: Theme directory scalable/stock of theme NoirCrystal has no size field



Working directory "/home/dhinds/.wine/dosdevices/z:/media/dhinds/Apps/Ecco_Suse/Ecco" does not exist. It won't be used when spawning "env".fixme:exec:SHELL_execute flags ignored: 0x00000100

fixme:exec:SHELL_execute flags ignored: 0x00004100



(xfce4-panel:4133): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type _OB_WM_ACTION_UNDECORATE



(xfce4-panel:4133): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type _OB_WM_ACTION_UNDECORATE

Application could not be started, or no application associated with the specified file.

ShellExecuteEx failed: Success.





(xfce4-panel:4133): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type _OB_WM_ACTION_UNDECORATE



(xfce4-panel:4133): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type _OB_WM_ACTION_UNDECORATE



(xfce4-panel:4133): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type _OB_WM_ACTION_UNDECORATE



It gets much longer, but with more of the same.



The xfce4-panel allows me to use Ultra with a reasonable degree of efficiency, and I hope this issue can be dealt with successfully soon.  (I had tried out CrunchBang some time back and the suggestion was made on their forum to use the xfce4-panel, which I found useful.  But Sparky Ultra is far more useful than CrunchBang IMO, and the time spent with CrunchBang was useful for my understanding Sparky Ultra).



As I understand it, the Sparky XFCE edition is the default edition of Sparky.  Is that correct?
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 14, 2014, 09:44:06 PM
I can't help you with taht. I never used xfce4-panel on openbox desktop.

Sparky Xfce is mady by our community member The Black Pig, but it is based on Debian stable "Wheezy".

It is not the default edition, the default one is LXDE.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 15, 2014, 03:59:31 AM

Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 14, 2014, 21:44

I can't help you with that. I never used xfce4-panel on openbox desktop.

Sparky Xfce is made by our community member The Black Pig, but it is based on Debian stable "Wheezy".

It is not the default edition, the default one is LXDE.




Thanks for the info.



The LXDE panel can be installed on Openbox also.  I tried it after installing CrunchBang (also based on Wheezy, rather than Jessie) a while ago.  CrunchBang has a very active forum and I learned some things about openbox.  I remember preferring the XFCE panel, but don't recall why.  Both are already there in openbox.



On typing "xfce4-panel" as a command two xfce4 panels appear , on top and at the bottom.  But the top one closes for some reason after a while, so I just added the things it had on the bottom panel and made it longer.  I also close the wbar so there is no conflict.  (You told me how to do that a while back).



I also installed Sparky E17 on another computer and haven't had time to figure out how to use it.  (It's design is extremely different than anything else I've operated).  It's visually impressive but uses paradigms like shelves that I haven't looked into and after using the SparkyBackup System to create a backup iso, I decided to install gnome (the full desktop) with Synaptic.



On rebooting, I see no difference, as yet.

Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 15, 2014, 07:01:29 AM

Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 14, 2014, 19:18

.ICEauthority:

Backup the old file and create a new one (in your home folder /home/dhinds):

Code:

mv .ICEauthority .ICEauthority.bak
touch .ICEauthority


SparkyBackup - run it as root it text console:

Code:

su
sparkybackup-apps






The Good and the Bad:  I'll start with the bad.



I wasn't able to do the ICEauthority backup as a user.  I wasn't on the list of sudoers.  I had to do it as root, and when I logged back on as a user, the same thing happened.  It wasn't fixed.



The second bad thing was, I configured a dozen email accounts manually and installed an addon in IceDove on Sparky Ultra which required restarting IceDove but it didn't re-initiate and on reopening IceDove the 12 email accounts were gone.



Now for the good news:  I intend to use Sparky Ultra so it doesn't matter much that Mate is still broken.  And as root I was able to backup my users email with SparkyBackup-Apps and save the results (a 1.7 gb tar.gz) and install it on IceDove in Sparky Ultra.



End of story.  Everything is fine.



What I like most about Mate is an add-on called "Force a misbehaving program to quit", which installs as an icon on the Mate panel.  Maybe something similar can be added to Ultra or the XFCE4-panel.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 18, 2014, 04:43:35 PM
This is now about In Sparky Ultra, in relation to the statement I made above:



Quote:

What I like most about Mate is an add-on called "Force a misbehaving program to quit", which installs as an icon on the Mate panel. Maybe something similar can be added to Ultra or the XFCE4-panel.




In Sparky Ultra's SparkyLinux Center's > System Settings Window, there is an icon linked to an application called X-Kill, to "Terminate a Malfunctioning Program" - but the AppFinder doesn't open it.



Perhaps this should be a new thread.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 18, 2014, 05:12:17 PM
It could be a new thread.



No, AppFinder can't find it.

Xkill tool is in the system, but there is not xkill.desktop file in application directory.

The icon of Xkill is visible becouse I made it and put there especially for SparkyCenter .
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 19, 2014, 12:56:29 AM

Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 18, 2014, 17:12

It could be a new thread.



No, AppFinder can't find it.

Xkill tool is in the system, but there is not xkill.desktop file in application directory.

The icon of Xkill is visible because I made it and put there especially for SparkyCenter .




But you didn't put it there just to look nice.  I assume you put it there to be used (although Alt+F4 seems to work alright).



Guess what.  By double clicking on the the XKill icon you placed in the SparkyCenter, it kills SparkyCenter!  Did you do that intentionally?  I would think not.  I'm reasonably sure that's not why you put it there.  :P





Incidentally, I noticed on the CrunchBang Testing Forum, that those #! users using Debian Testing are having difficulty.



According to the following DistroWatch search.



http://distrowatch.com/search.php?ostype=Linux&category=All&origin=All&basedon=Debian+%28Testing%29¬basedon=Ubuntu&desktop=Openbox&architecture=All&status=Active



Sparky and Pear are the only two distros offerring OpenBox on Debian Testing.



But Pear's home page states:



Quote:

PureOS 7.0 is a GNU/Linux live distro based on Debian testing, multilingual, installable and built with the new Linux Live Kit scripts.



It is available in two versions (Gnome and Openbox) as zip images for live-usb only.



Features common to both versions:

- kernel 3.6.11

- Chromium, GParted, Synaptic

- scripts for modules management (dir2pb, pb2dir, pure activate/deactivate, deb2pb and debs2pb)

- smxi/sgfxi scripts



Openbox version weighs only 356 MB, it was designed to serve as a basis for the design of live-usb customized by adding modules.

Gnome version is more complete (supports scanners and printers ...), it weighs 642 MB.



PureOS 7.0 is a GNU/Linux live distro based on Debian testing, multilingual, installable and built with the new Linux Live Kit scripts.




IOW, Pear is directed toward a very difference audience, folks that want to add everything themselves, rather than supply a set of applications and features that provide the best available solutions for common tasks.  It's for creating a lightweight live usb session.



Debian itself doesn't offer an OpenBox version on its Testing CD Download list for amd 54 bit, althouh it may be contained with in the 3 volume DVDset of  .isos they offer (numbered 1, 2 & 3. - they don't tell you what's in them).



So Sparky is the highest rated Debian derivative (that's compatible with Debian) on distrowatch based on Testing, and second only to CruncnBang (which is based on Stable and is OpenBox only and has been around for much longer - I think.  I have CrunchBang installed on another computer I'm not using at present, but the default boot on that one is Sparky E17).

Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 19, 2014, 06:08:51 PM

Quote:

By double clicking on the the XKill icon you placed in the SparkyCenter, it kills SparkyCenter!


No, it does not. It shows the big "X" you can drop on any opened window of an application.

Quote:

But you didn't put it there just to look nice.


I will do, no problem. I have put it on my list of next release.

Debian + Openbox -> CD1 with LXDE
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 19, 2014, 08:58:10 PM

Quote:

Quote from pavroo on January 19, 2014, 18:08



Quote:

By double clicking on the the XKill icon you placed in the SparkyCenter, it kills SparkyCenter!




Quote:

No, it does not. It shows the big "X" you can drop on any opened window of an application.




You mean the X can be dragged?    I didn't try that.   (The "Terminate a Misbehaving Application" icon that I always add to a Mate panel - and it was a part of Gnome 2 that I always used, worked differently.  After clicking on it, you could then click on the window of the misbehaving program you wanted to shut down).



I do use the killall command from a terminal to close the wbar (which you suggested).



And the SparkyCenter Window did disappear after I clicked on the big X.



Quote:

But you didn't put it there just to look nice.




I will do, no problem. I have put it on my list of next release.

Debian + Openbox -> CD1 with LXDE




Perfect.  Being in communication with the developer is a real advantage.



I have a question, if you have time:  How difficult was it to put together the Openbox version of Debian Testing?



Or rather, what did you have to do to create it?



Other than lacking some of the visual eye-candy that comes with more graphically oriented Desktop Environments, I see nothing that can not be added to or done from it, with the advantage of have a faster and possibly more stable system.



Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 19, 2014, 09:32:58 PM

Quote:

You mean the X can be dragged?


Just move it like a coursor and click on a window you'd like.

Quote:

what did you have to do to create it?


Install Debian base system, xorg server, openbox, lightdm (or slim/xdm/etc.), a panel (tint2/lxpanel/xfce4-panel/etc.) and create a startup file which will run some applications at system's boot up.

The file has to be located in: /home/you/.config/openbox/autostart.sh

Give it execute rights: chmod a+x autostart.sh

That's all.

Rest of it, it's your choice what you will install extra.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 21, 2014, 02:18:47 AM
(I thought I had already sent this):



Thanks for the detailed and helpful explanation.



One thing you didn't mention however is the file manager.  Crunchbang uses Thunar and Crunchbang users who have accessed the Debian Testing Repositories have had problems with Thunar.  Sparky Ultra / Openbox uses PCManFM.  Was that intentional (to avoid the problems Crunchbang users have encountered)?  Is there an important difference between them? (Of course Sparky Ultra contains Tux Commander, also).



Just wondered.





BTW, I sent a note to Dedoimedo (which published a review of Crunchbang Waldorf - the most recent), that they do a review of Sparky.



TIA
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 21, 2014, 02:35:46 AM

Quote:

I thought I had already sent this


That's right you have. I just missed it.

Quote:

Was that intentional (to avoid the problems Crunchbang users have encountered)?


No it wasn't. I used PCManFM in Openbox, becouse I tried to make Ultra Edition similar to LXDE as much as possible but without LXDE.

Anyway, I haven't heard about Thunar problem you said.

Code:

I sent a note to Dedoimedo


Thank's a lot. They did a review of Sparky 3.1 LXDE, I've seen it.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: dhinds on January 21, 2014, 03:06:43 AM
The problem with Thunar on upgrading Crunchbang to Testing is mentioned here:



http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=30734



I wondered why using Thunar was important, aside from the tabs offered with the latest version and it's being slightly less resource hungry.
Title: Re: Sparky Gnome
Post by: pavroo on January 21, 2014, 04:39:30 PM
Upgrading apps from stable to testing will make many changes. Testing base system is built on newer versions of libs so upgrading to testing will pull many extra packages. There is no excuse, it's dependency hell.

Quote:

I wondered why using Thunar was important


It's not, but...

Thunar and its daemon has a feature that will automatically mount and open external USB disks for example.

PCManFM doesn't have it. That's why I implemented extra script to the pipe menu to give the missing function for users.

This is only one diffrent I can see now.